July 1, 2025

Whom do you trust the most? Doctors? Layers? The Media? Your Family? Tom Garrity stops by to speak with Newsradio KKOB’s Bob Clark on The Morning Show to share the results of The Garrity Group’s Annual Perception Survey.

Full Transcript

Bob Clark [00:01:43] Bob Clark along with Dale Cornelius, our producer here on 96.3, News Radio, KKOB. And really, the one question that really gets to the heart of what we’re discussing today here in the 9 o’clock hour with our guest is, whom do you trust? Tom Garrity, who is founder and president of the Garritty Group, is with us in studio here on 96.3 News Radio KKOB and if you have any questions or comments. For Tom, we discuss his latest perception survey here in the nine o’clock hour today. Again, our texting page, we have an outage right now so you can email me, bob@newsradiokkob.com. The old fashioned email is the best way to reach me today. Someone told me, Thomas, is email really old fashioned? And technically it’s not, but in terms of snap communication, people just really.

Tom Garrity [00:02:32] Seem to prefer the text. Oh yeah, the text message is definitely, I mean we didn’t drill down specifically on the text messages, but yes. Yeah, you need somebody right away, send them a text message. Absolutely.

 Bob Clark [00:02:42] Thanks for coming in today. Yeah, likewise, Bob. Thanks. You bet. And before we sort of get into the results and some of the things that really kind of stood out to you in terms of the results this year, and this is a survey that you’ve been doing now since 2011, and you have been using Brian Sanderoff and his firm Research and Polling, and basically you survey hundreds of people who decide to take part in the survey and sort of evaluate their trust level of various industries and institutions. Here in the state of New Mexico. So tell us a little bit about Let’s go back to 15 years ago and and your decision why you want you why you wanted to do the perception survey Or at least get it started and why you think it’s and what’s what’s the value of the information for you for your line of work?

Tom Garrity [00:03:30] Well, you know that old saying that the shoemakers and children have no shoes. So we went through a rebranding process for the Garrity Group. And as a part of that, we went ahead and identified the 17 industries that we wanted to be in. And so we sat down with Brian Sanderoff in research and polling. And we figured, okay, with our four-step process of research, polling, execution evaluation. Nobody ever wants to pay for research. So if we were to kind of prime the pump, do the first step in on research, then that could help us get some clients. Because we’re just coming off the heels of 2008 and that particular great recession. And we had scaled back our operations from being in the western US to just New Mexico. So we were looking for a way to double down on showing that we know New Mexico, that we’re here in New Mexico and actually today. Celebrates the start of our 29th year of public relations in New Mexico. So we worked with Brian to identify the 17 industries, 15 professions that we could measure both favorability and trust. And then we were kind of curious also, how do people get their news and information? And you know, 15 years ago, you know the Facebook was just brand new. Don’t Facebook, don’t Facebook. And social media and digital media was just starting to take off. And so, you know, we figured now is probably a good time to measure those perceptions and as far as who people trust, what industries they favor and how people access news and information. And it’s been a fun journey over the last 15 or so years. We’ve done 14 perception surveys or 14 years have passed since the first survey. And yeah, so that’s, that’s why we did it. We used it to. You know, as a lead generator to really kind of spark the conversation, who do you trust?

Bob Clark [00:05:27] I work in one of these industries that’s specifically asked about in these surveys, so what the information, the results of the survey, what’s the value to me, what are some of the ways these industries and these companies have been able to use this information over the years?

Tom Garrity [00:05:42] Over the years, we have worked with every single one of the industries that are represented in the perception survey. All of them have different goals, whether it’s to inform a specific group. The information that we’re going to talk about today is what we call the top line data. It’s just, you know, it’s like what what is the result the top line result? But when we dig into the crosstabs, that’s where really the beauty is, because we’re able to find out, you know, who are those who are favorable about a particular industry? Who are those that are unfavorable about an industry? And who’s in the middle? It’s that middle ground, the sway, where we’re able to go in and say, okay, this is the fertile ground that we can go in, and really identify, you know, is it male or female? Level of education. You know, how do they access news and information? How long you know, what’s their level of education? You know how much money do they make and so you were able to use all of the data To really identify our own target audiences and then shape the message for our clients to go in and talk specifically to that audience

Bob Clark [00:06:53] And we’ll talk a little bit more about news and information, but certainly the way that’s evolved since that first survey tells us a lot, and it confirms what I think a lot of us have already kind of seen and heard, but you also talk about how people not just choose where they get their news, but what kind of news they’re looking for. And it’s not always fair and balanced anymore. People like to. To sort of have confirmation of their own beliefs through media sources. I believe you call them news silo.

Tom Garrity [00:07:27] Yeah, that is one of the things when Matt Hughes and Brian Sanderoff over at Research and Polling and I got together to talk about this year’s results, this was a focus of a lot of our conversation. It was the first time that news silos in the form of internet news sites, podcasts, social digital media, were really kind of preferred over traditional news sources, and people are saying, yeah, Tom, what’s the big deal? You know, I mean, we can go ahead and just get news anywhere. The traditional news sources have something over the digital ones in that they have an editorial process. So you might not necessarily like the coverage in the traditional media sources, but I take comfort knowing that there’s an editorial process that was implemented to make sure that it’s as balanced as possible, as objective as possible. But see, that’s one of the problems. A lot of people don’t trust that process anymore. Exactly. Yeah, and we’ve seen that reflected in the trust of journalists. You know, journalists have never been a trusted profession, you know, like family relatives, doctors, teachers, even from the start of the survey. And I don’t even think when I was in the news media that it was trusted. So, you, know, it’s always been one of those skeptical type of things, but people would always, you have trust and you know that favorability we can talk about and Journalists have a lot of swag. As far as in that middle ground. So the ship has not sailed for journalists, the ship is not sailed for a number of different professions. It’s just that the level of trust just isn’t as high. And so what that does is it creates opportunity for people to get their news from other sources. And traditional media sources, like radio, are finding different ways to influence that audience through podcasts, through social media, and really implementing that into a part of your outreach to the community. So I’m encouraged that the Albuquerque Journal has a podcast now, that they’re really leveraging their digital resources, that the television stations, there’s one particular station in town that all they do to test market everything is that they do a podcast, and if they get enough people listening on the podcast, then they move it up to a video series. And if there’s enough on a video series, then they go with a special. So there is a process that traditional media is using to try and get influence in that digital media space.

Bob Clark [00:10:02] Tom Garrity with us, founder and president of the Garrity Group. One other thing too, as we talk in broad generalities for the most part until we get more specific. Not only do you ask people about their trust levels and the favorabilities of 17 industries and institutions, but you also include

Tom Garrity [00:10:20] We do, oh absolutely, you know, family and relatives, we don’t have a chance to pick them. You know, we’re born into the family that we’re in and it’s always good to see that, you now, it’s amongst the most trusted of the categories that we measure in people and professions.

Bob Clark [00:10:38] Yeah, it came in at 68%. Now, have you noticed any changes within that dynamic of the numbers? Because as you were just talking about how the media has sort of evolved through all of this in the last 15 years, so has the family in many ways. And we do, not all families, but we do see more documented stories and hear from people about how there is some more family strife today because of politics and the news that’s out there. There are deep divisions. Among people even family members and and sometimes that can lead to Disagreements and disruptions in the family dynamic and it all goes back to digital

Tom Garrity [00:11:17] media everybody’s going into their new silos but you know all kidding aside although I think there’s a lot of truth to that when I the favorability or the trust of family back in 2011 was almost at 80% and it has it’s still a trusted you know 68% but still that’s that’s a significant decline that is and we have a more professions drop out of that most favored status, and here’s what I mean by that, is you know, we rate every single profession on a scale of one to five, and people give their response of five and four are the most trusted or most favored. Those that are twos and ones are least trusted and least favored. And so we look at those and we say okay anybody above that 50% mark Those are the favored, those are the trusted. And those who are on the other side of that 50% are not as trusted. And we’ve seen more industries and more people in profession make that jump, not on their own choosing, over to that other side of the 50%. So people are not trusting as many people or many professions as they once did, and they’re not as favorable with industries as they were once working. Here’s the really interesting thing, when I look at these numbers from that 10,000 foot view. People typically love, you know, they connect, people connect with people, they don’t connect with buildings and institutions. However, New Mexicans favor more industries and institutions than they do trust people and professions. And so just let that sink in for a minute, that you know we are really trusting or favorable more of the institutions, which are fewer than they were, than we have trust in people and professionals in New Mexico. So it should be flipped the other way, if that theory is true, that we would really trust things that we can touch, people that we have a conversation with. Well, those conversations are going south because the trust in people has definitely dropped.

Bob Clark [00:13:36] Let me ask you this question, for someone who may own a business or individually works within one of these industries that overall doesn’t score very well, when we’re talking about public trust, what, in other words, I guess advertising comes in at the bottom, right? Just at least trust it. At just 9%? Now, obviously. That 9% is a mighty 9%. Obviously, people are just… Lumping everybody together. I guess when it comes to advertising per se and not trusting it But if I’m an individual, let’s say a good friend of ours who is well respected Well-liked and well trusted by so many people in this community Dallas bars. Yes, he works with an advertising He owns a business How can an individual who works within an industry that doesn’t score well and trust it? How do they go about sort of dealing with themselves on an individual basis when they look at the results of the search?

Tom Garrity [00:14:34] So, I mean, with the exception of Dell, because Dell, you know, a great guy, great agency. Very successful. Absolutely. Don’t cry for, don’t cry, he’s doing very well. So a company that is in that predicament, what I would suggest is first, know what you want to say. What is your message? Because when you get out there in the public, you’re going to need to really be true to who you are. And stuff. And so as you’re true to who you are, you would use this data to identify who are the people who like you, who are those who are favorable, and in this particular case it would be nine percent. So it’s a pretty finite group and stuff, and so I would look at the key demographics, okay, who’s of that nine percent, which age demographic, which, you know, income level. And, so I, would look, at those two items after I knew what I wanted to say, And then I would look at that middle ground. Okay, because in the middle, there are 37% who are either undecided or haven’t formed an opinion on advertising, just to continue with that example. And so what I would do is say, okay, realistically, I think if we were able to share the message to the right audiences, talk about how advertising works, talk about how companies have been able to generate sales as a result of advertising. Here I am in PR guy promoting advertising 2011 we finished just ahead of that But our don’t knows won’t say we’re like through the roof. So it’s like what is We’re lumped in with advertising in that zone

Bob Clark [00:16:12] It’s funny because people are surrounded by public relations in some form or fashion every single day in some, you know, in some part, but maybe they don’t know individually that it’s there’s a PR industry.

Tom Garrity [00:16:21] Like that you know you can lead with one of three things it’s either marketing advertising or public relations but most often the other two arenas marketing and advertising for PR will come in behind us to support the PR effort so it’s an integrated effort and amongst you know us marketing advertising PR folks we all kind of wink wink nod nods and yeah yeah yeah we’re the lowest you know of the of the group but yeah that’s the way it goes

Bob Clark [00:16:47] Have you noticed anything, just again based on the surveys that you’ve been doing since 2011, have you noticed any thing that really stands out pre-pandemic versus post-panda in terms of the results that you’re seeing?

Tom Garrity [00:17:00] Yes, actually. There are a number of trusted companies and agencies, because when we did the 2020 survey, it was in January of 2020, so it was just before the pandemic. We tried to roll it out in May of 2020. It was toast. It’s like the perceptions had totally changed. But we saw less trust and favorability afterwards in some professions, like doctors. You know, doctors very high level of trust. In fact, the highest level of trust for doctors in 2020 was in the northwestern part of the state for such a time as this. I think the doctors had, and their level of, trust in the Northwest helped to stem the COVID tide in the northwestern parts of the State, the part that was hit the most. And you know a lot of their, you know expertise, a lot of their you know the the gas in the tank got sucked out a bit for doctors, in the north western part of state because they expended a lot of their capital. Uh you know you know trying to help people and save lives so that was one of the things that we saw drop post-pandemic

Bob Clark [00:18:02] Okay, Tom’s in terms of whom do people trust let’s start we’ll get to the individuals and the professions in a moment but let’s begin with the the institutions if you will and there’s There’s been a change at the top slight, but it’s There’s a change there. So talk a little bit about the the top trusted institutions in your

Tom Garrity [00:18:24] Yes, so the most favored institutions in New Mexico are farming and ranching. That industry is number one. This is a new place for them because typically they’ve been number two. Number one in previous years, which has slipped just a little bit, is small business. Yeah, I mean they’re both ranked still very, very high, but they just flip-flopped positions this year. And you know, since 2011 when we first did the survey, both the farming, ranching industry and small business are the only two. To have continued to do better today than they did back then. Everybody else since 2011 has dropped. Yeah.

Bob Clark [00:19:01] Again and just it again a slight change you’re talking about farming and ranching in 80% small businesses at 79% It really could be something as simple as the the results flipped just based on who? Decided who ultimately participated in the search

Tom Garrity [00:19:17] Oh, absolutely. You know, the survey that’s conducted by research and polling has a 95 level, a 95% level of confidence. Meaning that if you ask 10 people on the street what their view is of farming and ranching, you’ll get this answer nine times.

Bob Clark [00:19:35] Very good. And historically, as we’ve mentioned, they’ve always been at the top. So what do you think, really, the main factor or two is in their just bedrock consistency of people and trusted institutions?

Tom Garrity [00:19:48] Yeah, it’s of the, as far as for farming and ranching, it’s just that it’s a bedrock institution, salt of the earth, the dirt. People, I think, are connecting more because of what we’re seeing, the changes in the media habits. I think people are really digging deep and they’re really investing more in the things that they personally connect with, whether that is knowing someone who’s in the farming and wrenching industry or maybe even just as simple as being in the produce area. Going you know what this all comes from somewhere because it takes the village so to speak.

Bob Clark [00:20:22] And I know you asked the question, it’s about trust level, but there’s also, I think, historically been a high level of respect for people who get into the farming and ranching industry and who also have the guts to open their own small business, because it’s difficult and I think most people recognize that.

Tom Garrity [00:20:37] Yeah, absolutely, and everybody, if you, I would hope most people would choose a small business over a box chain. At least it’s like that PBS effect, right? Back in the day, people were asked in the diaries, they said, do you watch PBS or do you watch The Simpsons? People are guessing, oh, well, of course I watch PBS, so they mark the PBS box, but they’re watching The Simpons.

Bob Clark [00:21:00] All right, talk about some of the other industries that are above that 50 percentile mark and where they fit in and then you can talk about those that have some work to do in terms of building trust.

Tom Garrity [00:21:08] Yeah, so on the on the upper side of the 50% in addition to farm and ranch small business, we have community colleges at 66%, national laboratories at 64%, film industry, universities at 60%, local banks, and then the solar and wind industry. And so those are all the favored industries of New Mexico.

Bob Clark [00:21:27] Okay, interesting that the the designation or the distinction is made between the local banks The question is asked about local banks. Yes, there aren’t many local banks left, right? Yeah. Well

Tom Garrity [00:21:40] You know, in terms of.

Bob Clark [00:21:41] Community.

Tom Garrity [00:21:41] Yeah, and a lot of them are now in the form of credit unions Yes, you know, so you know and in to kind of for ease of the survey and consistency, you have credit unions back in 2011 so you include them in the cut in the category of local banks. Oh, yeah And so people connect with local, you you know they we see that with the small businesses We see that what the film industry we see with local banks and we did separate them Financially and stuff and so on the other side of that 50% We have the oil and gas industry at 46 percent, church and organized religion, commercial construction, public schools at 35 percent, the medical system, mining industry, major business corporations, national bank at 29 percent, and then the courts and justice system at 24 percent. And the courts and justice system, when you look at the entire realm of things, trust is that glue that holds our society together. And when we look at one of the key items of our society, it’s the court justice system. Cuz it’s not just the system itself, but it’s also the attorneys. It’s the police officers. It’s, you know, it is the judges. And really, none of those have moved above the 50%, and they need to be in order for our society to be continuing its successful progression.

Bob Clark [00:23:06] Let me ask you about the oil and gas industry, because it’s under water now, it’s below 50%. That wasn’t always the case in the history of your surveys. How do you account for that? And I’m wondering, because the oil gas industry in New Mexico just provides billions and billions and billions of dollars in revenue, and I think employ either directly or indirectly about 100,000 people, but I’m wonder the oil or gas industry even here in New Mexico has become a ping pong, if you will, in that political discussion. About green energy and about oil and gas. And I’m wondering if that has had an impact on some people in terms of how they view the oil and the gas industry. Yeah, perhaps.

Tom Garrity [00:23:44] It has and actually this year we asked that you know we drill down a little bit with regards to solar and wind as well as oil and gas specific to oil and gas you know coming in at 46 percent favorability there is remember we were talking about that sway earlier well they have 31 percent in the middle and nine percent on don’t know won’t say and so they have 40 percent of middle ground. And you know, if you move four percent. You know for them all of a sudden they’re at that 50% mark and so it’s not it’s not all doom and gloom and always you know the oil and gas industry no oil and gas industry from a perception perspective is in a position to continue to you know from perception perspective continue to make positive inroads in New Mexico.

Bob Clark [00:24:30] We talked about the institutions, Tom, so let’s talk now about people and professions. And we already did touch on earlier this hour that families still comes in at number one at 68 percent, but that percentage is down fairly significantly in recent years.

Tom Garrity [00:24:45] Yeah, well actually since 2011 that number has dropped from about 80% down to 68% and then this year they’re followed by teachers at 57% scientists, doctors, those are the top four. Those are the four that have more than 50% trust amongst New Mexico residents.

Bob Clark [00:25:04] Well, and let me follow up on teachers because the idea that when people are asked about teachers I think most people especially if they have kids they think about their teachers But if you asked in terms if you ask the question about public education as an institution That that might be a little low

Tom Garrity [00:25:26] I would think. Yeah, well, you know, people love their teacher, but when it comes to the institution of public education, you know, they’re not so hot about it. You know, I mean, you can you can hug a teacher, you can’t hug a building. You can say thank you and have a conversation with the teacher. You can’t with the building.

Bob Clark [00:25:42] And plus we obviously know it’s been well documented for many years and the news continues not to be very good. New Mexico is ranked 50th overall when it comes to public education. And I think people see those stories and it’s like, okay, and they understand why everything’s documented. But you know, my trials teacher actually is pretty good. And they often look at it from a separate lens.

Tom Garrity [00:26:04] Yeah, when you have public schools with a 35% favorability and teachers with a 57% favor ability, almost double, I mean, to me, if I’m with APS, been there, done that, what I would do is I would say, let’s go ahead and focus and empower our frontline team members to be a part of our message. And that’s what APS and other school districts around the state are doing, and they’re doing it with great success as far as trying to really share that… The halo effect, if you will, that teachers have in helping to let the parents and the community know what’s happening inside the school district in their community.

Bob Clark [00:26:45] And inside the classroom, not a bad way to go either, because there are success stories. I mean, I’d get 50th in education overall, K through 12, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have very bright students and we don’t have very good teachers too. So showcasing them on a more individual level and getting stories that people can identify within the classroom might be.

Tom Garrity [00:27:06] A good way to go. Yeah, it all comes back down to what do you want to say and oftentimes you know education tends to be a very big tent and a lot of people say well we need to be talking about this, we need be talking about that instead of really kind of just focusing you know perhaps on the messages that their target audiences need to hear. Okay, so

Bob Clark [00:27:26] And again, there are only four professions and people in this category that are above that 50% mark. So let’s talk a little bit now about those that have a little work to do, including police officers.

Tom Garrity [00:27:37] Yeah, they come in at number five. Police officers are at number 5, at 46%. Now, here’s what’s kind of interesting about the 46%. You know, I always like that 50% mark. Well, there’s 28% who are in the middle or in that sway. So, you know, they’re very close. A lot of people are just kind of in the middle ground. There have been a lot of headlines with, related to law enforcement in general. And, you know, people sometimes might look at what’s happening with the, Sheriff’s Department or with ICE. Or with the marshal’s office, and they’ll just lump them all into police officers, followed by accountants at 43 percent, accountants, it’s like a bedrock, they have not moved, you know, and I love my account, anyway, ordinary person at 40 percent, religious leaders at 37 percent, now in that middle ground, 34 percent are undecided or haven’t made a decision. And so a lot of sway there. Judges, 34%. And they also have 34% who are in the middle. So again, we were talking about the courts and justice system and the players in that. A lot of people in the Middle, a lot of opportunity to move that needle. Business owners at 33%, journalists at 27%. That middle ground is 32%. And then lawyers, 27%. And then we get into state and federal elected officials with a 19% and 17%, respectively, level of trust. Now, for those two professions, and advertising brings up the rear, we’ve already talked about that. They have, respectively, state has 51% of New Mexicans, according to the survey, do not trust state elected officials. 52% do not trust federal elected officials, now we didn’t ask about who’s in the White House, we didn’t ask about whose in City Council, we just asked- Just generically. Generically and the first person that comes to mind Typically they like their city councilor, but not too fond of the council. You know, it’s that, you know, who can you have a conversation with? You can’t really have a conversation with an entity, but you can with the person.

Bob Clark [00:29:42] I know you want to touch on the results that you got in terms of importance of faith and stress levels in New Mexico.

Tom Garrity [00:29:48] Yeah, so importance of faith. New Mexicans in 2011 had 92% of us relied on faith as an important part of our personal life. Today, 84%. And then the stress levels in the state, the most stressed out place in New Mexico is the eastern part of New Mexico. 41% of residents there say that they have high stress and the lowest level of stress in New North Central New Mexico at 31%. Okay, what’s the statewide stress level? Oh, I’m sorry, it’s 31%, 36%, yeah, see? Oh no, that’s right. Oh no, that’s right.

Bob Clark [00:30:21] Keep me honest, I like that. Yeah, 36% in north central New Mexico. Yeah, land of manana, for the most part. I wonder what, anything come out in the survey in terms of why the higher stress levels in the east and southeast?

Tom Garrity [00:30:31] Uh, yeah, we didn’t drill down on specifics, but I imagine, you know, we can all, you know, basically, I’m sure come up with their own ideas of, you know,

Bob Clark [00:30:39] And this is always fun, I’m glad you were able to come on with us today, but before we wrap it up, I want to certainly give you an opportunity for people who would be interested in accessing this information, where they need to go to sign up and get it downloaded.

Tom Garrity [00:30:50] And then just click on research, or you can just type in garrityperceptionsurvey.com. And if you spell it all correctly, you’re better than I am.

Bob Clark [00:30:59] Way. If Tom’s name and voice sounds familiar here on KKOB, that’s because he has spent many years working with us on during the Balloon Fiesta and it’ll be here before you know it. Oh I know, less than a hundred days. He keeps track folks. Yeah. Tom is great.

Tom Garrity [00:31:13] Great to see you too. Thanks, Bob.